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Minutes for SB142 - Committee on Senate Select Committee on Education Finance
Short Title
Appropriations for the department of education for FY 2020 and FY 2021 in response to litigation; increasing BASE aid for certain school years.
Minutes Content for Wed, Mar 6, 2019
Chairperson Baumgardner called the meeting to order.
Chairperson Baumgardner asked for a motion to accept committee minutes from January 16, February 6, and February 12. Motion to accept minutes by Senator Kerschen, seconded by Vice-chairperson Denning. No discussion. Motion passed.
Chairperson Baumgardner opened the hearing on SB 142. She noted the bill contains the appropriations for the Kansas State Department of Education (KSDE) for fiscal year (FY) 2020 and FY 2021, in response to litigation, increasing BASE aid for certain school years.
Chairperson Baumgardner stated the Office of Revisor of Statutes would provide clarifying comments, the Kansas Legislative Research Department (KLRD) would provide background information, and Dale Dennis, Deputy Commissioner, KSDE, will briefly speak. She noted after these speakers the committee would hear oral testimony for SB 142.
Nick Myers, Assistant Revisor, Office of Revisor of Statutes, presented a brief overview in two specific area's. The first overview detailed the Gannon VI decision on what the Legislature's task is, the other overview reviewed SB 142 and the difference between this bill and SB 44. Chairperson Baumgardner clarified that there has been no language change from SB 44 to SB 142 with regard to BASE aid.
Senator Kerschen asked what the dollar amount would be if you put SB 44 and SB 142 together. Mr. Myers responded KLRD would discuss this next.
John Hess, Fiscal Analyst, KLRD, provided the Governor's recommendation for K-12 school finance as proposed by Gannon VI. (Attachment 1) Mr. Hess noted this document was also provided and discussed at the February 6 meeting of the Select Committee on Education Finance for the SB 44 hearing. Mr. Hess went over in detail each column of the handout and stood for questions.
Vice-chairperson Denning asked if SB 142 is adding $92.7 million in state foundation aid, and how much money was coming in from legislation in 2017. Mr. Hess responded the state foundation aid total was correct, and from the other two bills he believes it is around $102-105 million scheduled, based on current law. Mr. Hess went over the calculation that shows the amount. Vice-chairperson Denning responded that according to the chart and calculation provided he came up with around $194.9 million in new money coming in for FY 2020. Discussion ensued on the various bills and money that would come in from them. Vice-chairperson Denning noted that the consensus revenue from November 2018 is bringing in $194 million in new taxes, so essentially the commitment of funding SB 142 would use the whole amount of this State General Fund.
Mr. Dale Dennis, Deputy Commission, KSDE, came to the podium to answer questions.
Chairperson Baumgardner asked Mr. Dennis to address what has been referred to as a drafting error, and how the Kansas State Board of Education (KSBE) came up with their funding recommendation, and if KSBE communicated with outside groups on their recommendations. Mr. Dennis responded that the KSBE added just over $90 million per year and KSBE went over the different calculations. He noted that the KSBE was asked if they would like to go back and look at their recommendation again and they responded they did not. Mr. Dennis discussed communications that occurred after the July board meeting vote on their recommendation. He noted that inquiries did not change what the KSBE voted on. Chairperson Baumgardner asked Mr. Dennis if he had any communication with Schools For Fair Funding (SFFF). Mr. Dennis responded they had made their recommendations public and held numerous workshops. Vice-chairperson Denning stated he had spoke with the lobbyist for SFFF that morning and they were adamant that they had not much knowledge on how the formula was being addressed to satisfy the Court for the inflation fix. Vice-chairperson Denning asked if this information was included in the KSBE workshops and if SFFF were a part of those workshops. Mr. Dennis responded that the SFFF constituents would have been as there were numerous meetings, a school board conventions, and other opportunities. He stated that this communication included what was reflected in the BASE amount per pupil and was available to the world and a transparent calculation.
Mark Tallman, Kansas Association of School Board (KASB), provided proponent testimony. (Attachment 2) Mr. Tallman stated he would be brief as their position is the same as when they testified for SB 44. Mr. Tallman stated the KASB testimony provides charts to help show that this money is needed. He noted that KASB put together a follow-up with responses from the February 6, 2019 hearing in the Select Committee on Education Finance. (Attachment 3)
Mark Desetti, Kansas National Education Association (KNEA), provided neutral testimony. (Attachment 4) Mr. Desetti discussed the reasons KNEA is neutral and highlighted two items that they wish the Legislature to accomplish. These two items discussed the finance formula and a fix to the inflation rate.
Mike O'Neal, Kansas Policy Institute (KPI), provided opponent testimony. (Attachment 5) Mr. O'Neal discussed KPI's desire to end the litigation, however he discussed and provided detailed information that KPI believes shows a strong case for the Court to stay out of funding schools under the separation of powers doctrine.
Chairperson Baumgardner noted the Committee received written testimony. She noted that this included the amended testimony from SFFF who represents the plaintiffs in the Gannon case.
Bill Brady, representative for School For Fair Funding (SFFF), provided amended written-only testimony that changes the plaintiff's position and testimony from the February 6 meeting from a proponent of the bill to an opponent. (Attachment 6)
Judith Deedy, Executive Director, Game On for Kansas Schools, provided proponent written testimony. (Attachment 7)
Monica Crow, President, Kansas Parent Teacher Association, provided written proponent testimony. (Attachment 8)
Brandi Fisher, Executive Director, MainStream Coalition, provided written proponent testimony. (Attachment 9)
One United Voice, a coalition of five Shawnee County school districts, provided written proponent testimony that includes an attached brochure. (Attachment 10) (Attachment 11)
Chairperson Baumgardner asked Mr. Desetti why his group was a proponent for SB 44, but neutral on SB 142. Mr. Desetti responded he misread the bill, and he was unaware of what the KSBE had recommended in July. Vice-chairperson Denning commented that the Revisor and Research staff had determined that 100.0 percent of money that is produced from tax incremental growth would go to satisfying the litigation. He asked Mr. Desetti if he thought the SFFF inflation is the correct calculation. Mr. Desetti responded that their interpretation of the Court ruling is that it is in alignment with what SFFF has said. Vice-chairperson Denning stated that if the Kansas Supreme Court rules that the SFFF calculation on inflation is correct it will result in 165.0 percent of all taxes that Kansas can produce. Vice-chairperson Denning asked Mr. Desetti if the Supreme Court agrees with the KSDE position, would his organization support that position. Mr. Desetti responded if the Supreme Court agrees they would be delighted.
Senator Pettey asked if a representative from One United Voice could come to the podium for questions. Jennifer Crow, representative for USD 501 Topeka Public Schools, approached to address any questions. Senator Pettey discussed funding and the specifics of what it is used for. She asked Ms. Crow if the school districts use specific definitions such as what is included in classroom instruction. Ms. Crow stated she was unsure, but discussed what they used funding for in the past such as teacher salaries. Senator Pettey asked if USD 501 considered buildings, maintenance, and utilities as classroom instruction. Ms. Crow responded that they did.
Senator Kerschen asked Mr. Tallman if the State makes these payments for future years and come up short at some point, would KASB support closing schools. Mr. Tallman responded that KASB votes on all positions and noted that his membership supports adequate funding as is in the bill.
Senator Pettey asked Mr. Tallman for more details on his statement regarding the level of funding not being at the level for his grandchildren as it was for his children. Mr. Tallman clarified his remarks.
Chairperson Baumgardner closed the hearing on SB 142 at 2:27pm.
Senator McGinn motioned to work SB 142, Senator Goddard seconded the motion. Motioned passed.
The Committee asked clarifying questions before proceeding.
Senator Goddard motioned to pass SB 142 out of Committee, Vice-chairperson Denning seconded the motion. Motion passed.
Chairperson Baumgardner adjourned the meeting at 2:31 pm.
