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Minutes for HCR5009 - Committee on Federal and State Affairs
Short Title
Making application to the U.S. congress to call a convention of the states.
Minutes Content for Wed, Mar 13, 2019
Chairperson Barker noted that there are a large number of conferees today. He is going to allow the first proponent and the first opponent an extended amount of time to present their testimony.
Chairperson Barker opened the hearing on HCR5009. The Revisor, Jason Long, provided an overview of the bill (Attachment 1). He pointed out that the Kansas Constitution requires a two-thirds majority vote for the Legislature to adopt a resolution calling for a convention of the states. That currently is not stated in the resolution itself, but after the resolution was printed, he found a rule of the House that requires such express vote be included in the resolution. If the Committee works this resolution and passes it out, he would suggest that the Committee amend the bill to specify the two-thirds vote that is required.
Chairperson Barker recognized Dr.Tom Coburn, former United States Senator from Oklahoma, as a proponent of HCR5009 (Attachment 2). This is his third time to appear before this Committee about a convention of states. He stated that for many years now the federal government has gone totally outside the bounds of the enumerated powers in the Constitution, resulting in an imbalance of power. The United States Supreme Court reigns over everything, making decisions that should be decided by Kansans. The executive branch now makes law by executive order, and the bureaucratic branch now makes law by federal regulations. Congress has ceded its power to both the executive branch and the administrative state. Congress is not doing its job and it is doing a lot of jobs it is not entitled to do. The greater macro-economic picture is worse than ever. We now have $22 trillion of debt and we are 20th in the world in economic freedom. We have is an unlimited federal government, a diminished rule of law, less economic freedom, and a loss of virtue across our country because our states have lost control of education. Our country is in trouble morally, ethically, and in the unequal enforcement of our laws. The convention of states is about restoring the Constitution, not changing it; restoring the commerce clause, not changing it; restoring term limits on both appointed and elected members; and restoring fiscal responsibility. Questions were asked by Representatives Eplee, Lusk, and Carpenter.
Chairperson Barker recognized Susan Waddle as a proponent of HCR5009 (Attachment 3). She stated she has become increasingly concerned about the continuing advancement of the federal government's overreach and invasion into our lives. She believes the convention of states is the answer to this problem.
Tom Cushing was recognized by the Chair as a proponent of HCR5009 (Attachment 4). He stated he supports the convention of states because it is a process to bring political power back to the levels that can most efficiently deal with the problems and issues that affect our society.
Shelby Shultz testified as a proponent of HCR5009 (Attachment 5). She stated that people are fed up with the federal government's overreach. A convention of states will use Article V of the Constitution to propose amendments. It is the only check on congressional power that exists.
Chairperson Barker recognized Chuck Akins, who testified in support of HCR5009 (Attachment 6). He stated an Article V convention of states is limited to proposing amendments only. He urges the Committee's support of this resolution for the future of their children and grandchildren.
David Copeland was recognized as a proponent of HCR5009 (Attachment 7). He stated 18,000 people in Kansas have signed the petition for a convention of states. These people believe that reform is needed and that the government has grown too large to function. He asked the Committee to please pass HCR5009.
The Chairperson recognized David Schneider who testified in favor of HCR5009 (Attachment 8).
Chairperson Barker called upon Mark Meckler, who testified as a proponent of HCR5009 (Attachment 9)(Attachment 9A). He stated that sixty-seven percent of the citizens of Kansas support the convention of states. He also indicated the delegates to the convention of states are controlled by their state. Any vote they make that is not authorized by that state is null and void. Anything that comes out of convention is merely a suggestion to the states. All the convention of states has the power to do is meet, talk and suggest. It takes 38 states to ratify anything that comes out of convention.
Questions were asked by Representatives Smith and Humphries to Mr. Meckler. Chairperson Barker stated that he would save further questions until the opponents had testified.
Chairperson Barker stated that there is written proponent testimony from Shawn Comstock (Attachment 10); Georganna Cushing (Attachment 11); Vail Fruechting (Attachment 12); Clarence Frye (Attachment 13); Tony Gillette (Attachment 14); Michael Goodin (Attachment 15); Tom Harmon (Attachment 16); Viola Heskett (Attachment 17); Nathan Johnson (Attachment 18); Gary Knight (Attachment 19); Mark McAllister (Attachment 20); Dennis Mosebey (Attachment 21); SFC Randell Phalp (Attachment 22); and Bob Strawder (Attachment 23).
After seeing that there were no further proponents, Chairperson Barker closed the proponent portion of the hearing.
Chairperson Barker recognized John Axtell as an opponent to HCR5009 (Attachment 24). He stated he agrees that Washington DC is out of control, but this resolution does not accomplish what its proponents intend. He believes the problem is that the Constitution is not enforced by the citizens. What is needed is leaders who will reign in our out-of-control government. The citizens must hold elected officials accountable to the sound principles of limited government, human dignity and freedom, as it is clearly stated in the Constitution.
Robert Wood testified as an opponent to HCR5009 (Attachment 25). He stated that an Article V convention seeks to amend our Constitution. Currently, both state and federal governments refuse to follow the Constitution. Adding amendments to the Constitution will not make the government follow the Constitution. The same is true regarding the overreach of the United States Supreme Court. He believes we must enforce our constitutions and not allow any more violations of them by the courts. It is time to enforce our laws and our compact, not amend them.
Chairperson Barker recognized Bill Rich who testified in opposition to HCR5009 (Attachment 26). He has taught constitutional law for 40 years. He stated he has difficulty imagining anything worse than a second U.S. constitutional convention. Virtually all of the constitutional convention proposals he has seen would transfer authority from the people and their elected representatives to a judicial branch charged with enforcing a new set of potentially rigid constraints.
Chairperson Barker opened the floor for questions from the Committee. Questions were asked by Representatives Carpenter and Eplee to Mr. Axtell; Representatives Houser and Lusk to Mr. Rich; and Representatives Smith, Houser, and Highberger to Mr. Wood.
Chairperson Barker noted that there is written opponent testimony from Blake Branson (Attachment 27); Dylan John Callahan (Attachment 28); Mark Desetti for Kansas National Education Association (Attachment 29); Emily Fetsch of Kansas Center for Economic Growth (Attachment 30); Stephanie Iser, Adam Meredith, Pamela Sitton, Dave Meredith and Douglas Peel (Attachment 31); Michael Leachman of Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (Attachment 32); Leslie Mark (Attachment 33); Adrienne Olejnik, Kansas Action for Children (Attachment 34); Scott Rogers (Attachment 35); Joshua Shorter (Attachment 36); and Professor David Super (Attachment 37).
Chairperson Barker closed the hearing on HCR5009.
Chairperson Barker thanked the audience for being here today.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:27 a.m.
